33: Pay to Pray - The Hallow App

Finally, an app review you can listen to. On this episode, we discuss the Hallow app, Gwen Stefani, and whether or not Mark Wahlberg did kill a guy.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And we're so thankful that God has forgiven us.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

How's it going? It's going well. We are meeting on the eve of Father's Day, which is appropriate, I think, for how we talk about things. Co-opting a male holiday. So true. Honestly, I think this is a good gift for Dan. He gets a little break from me and Oscar's asleep.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

So prime time. It's uh also Pride Fest today in Chicago. And it is raining a lot. And I asked Ryan, do you think it's raining because God hates the gays? And then Ryan said, No, it's because I think God wants to be the only dad. The ultimate father. The ultimate father. And I said he wants to be a daddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah. Sort of working on the body. Not a dad. He wants to be a daddy. Correct. I was going to use this as a horrible transition, but you said you were going to introduce the topic. I do want to say I went back and listened to the Kevin Zade Zedai episode because for some reason that one really took off during our two-year hiatus. Like I don't know why there are so many streams of that one. That's really funny. We're probably on a watch list.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Certainly. My library hasn't flagged me already. I don't know what's going on in this country.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

So I went back and listened to it on my drive to work one day. And in that episode, you're like, I first of all, you weren't done with school yet. And you're like, I wish I'm wondering if I should have become a plumber or an electrician. Yes. And I've actually been thinking about that a lot lately. Not that I want a career change, but I have thought about that since you've said that. And that was over two years ago. And we were also talking about how like it felt like the world was ending and it was spicy times. That's really funny. We only knew. If only we knew.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah. Similar times back then. And I'll say part of my thoughts around that job in particular have not really changed that much. Sometimes I do think I should have been a plumber. And actually, when I started going to therapy more consistently in February to talk about job stuff, I brought that idea up again to my therapist. It was funny. What was their take?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

She thought it was awesome. She was like, Yeah, you should give up this other career path you've gone to school for, and what are you doing? Exactly. Yeah. And so I threw my whole life away.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

No.

unknown 3:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Just kidding. You know what? There's always time for a pivot. Yeah. I think I gave myself 10 years and then I can check in to see if I'm still good. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

I uh I feel like I'm at a crossroads now. I don't know if it's like uh a midlife crisis of just um being at a certain point in my career and being like, do I really want to keep doing this? But that's the AI of it all. Also in that episode, the Kevin episode, we were already like, I AI is being put into everything. I don't want to use it.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I'm like, wow. Wow. Simpler time. I didn't know. We had no idea.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I feel like that was when AI was really silly. Like we were all just kind of laughing about how it was just ugly and bad, and now it's literally, you know, getting people fired and making people do insane things.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

And it's in every app, and it doesn't need to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Speaking of apps, great great pivot. I love it. Yeah. Speaking of apps, today, uh, Ellen and I are finally gonna talk about the Gwen Stefani Hallowed app, which is maybe a bit of a misnomer. It's not really her app, but the commercial that I saw, or I guess the Instagram ad I saw for hallowed or hallow. Hallow. Hallow. Um, featured Gwen the Gwen Stefani.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Or is it Hollow? If we're saying the Lord's Prayer, do you say hallow be thy name? Or Hallow.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Hallow. I don't know. That feels regional accent territory.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

You're right. You're right. Oh, oh no. My bright vowels are coming out. Sorry. Okay, yes, we are talking about this app. This app.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Hallow. And I wanted to say hallowed so bad, but I'm sure it was a real like, call it just Facebook, not the Facebook type moment.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Mm-mm. I wonder, as someone who deals in the world of content strategy, my first thought when you were like we should talk about this app was how many people do you think after seeing the Gwen Stefani commercial went onto Wikipedia and looked up is Gwen Stefani Catholic?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

What is her religious backstory? I bet like 90% of people actually went to go look that up. And because like Gwen Stefani is such a like in my childhood memory, it's like she's the hollow back girl, very cool, very irreverent type style.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Um wait, I'm sorry, that's your introduction to Gwen Stefani. It wasn't it wasn't no doubt. No, it wasn't. It was hollow back girl. This is a generational divide.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah, this is and you're not even Gen Gen Z. No, I'm a millennial. I think I attribute that to I didn't have older siblings, and I grew up in a very like rural homeschool era. Also, are you still there? Why is it I'm there? I don't know where you are. I got a new phone like last weekend, and so some of these apps are like figuring things out. Maddie's figuring out technology for the first time. I bought this, I had this phone in my possession for a whole week before I actually.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Hang on. Uh-huh. You had what, an iPhone 5 and now you've upgraded? I had an iPhone SE and it still had a button. Okay. And I loved it. Yeah. What happened to it? I mean, we just talked about this when we saw each other. I it was just time. I needed to.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

So what are you working with now? An iPhone 14. I'm really proud of you. I'm in the lap of luxury right now. And I sort of hate it.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

What's the pain point?

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Not having a button. The lens is so big. And yes, I actually keep tapping the edge of like the screen because I'm not used to not having a little buffer at the bottom. And I the sorry, this is where I have tinfoil hat on. I don't want to do face ID.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Well, they say that you should turn that off.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, but then you have to enter your password every time.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay. Here's the thing, Maddie. In in this era that we are in, where if we are exercising our First Amendment right, someone could find your phone and unlock it because they had no passcode. So like I think this is probably better for you. Get rid of the password? No, to have a to have a lock on your phone.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Oh, I have it locked. I just don't use face ID.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Right, but like you didn't have that with your iPhone SE, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yes, I did. I had the fingerprint. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

The biomet also biometrics.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah, yeah. I know. My rules are shaky and make no sense. Sorry. Didn't mean to catch you in whatever that was. It's I I uh fully own that it's like borderline unnecessary and like probably stupid in many ways, considering how much you know the TSA takes a picture of you every time you go to the airport. And yet anyway.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Sorry, let's go back to what we were talking about. So your introduction to Gwen Stefani was hollow backgirl, but when you said it, it sounded like you said hollow back girl. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

So obviously you were aware of no doubt, and that's how you knew Gwen Stefani. Yeah. I guess were you surprised to find her Catholic roots?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I was more just like, oh, she's trying to stay relevant. Because like after the voice, I know she just did like a a stint at the sphere in Las Vegas. Oh. But like the br the Blake Shelton of it all, like, what has she really been up to besides the voice and getting married? I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, I don't think she's been up to much. I want to say she came out with a new album, but I could be wrong about that. I did listen to an a podcast specifically about Gwen Stefani. Um, it's the podcast is called A Little Fruity or a Little Bit Fruity, I can't remember exactly. And it was he was basically like talking about how you know people were really surprised to find Gwen Stefani in the commercials for this app. But he was like tracing her history and it was like, this is like not a surprise because she was actually like pretty conservative from the jump. Like she would in early interviews would say a lot of things about like she couldn't wait to get married, be married, and have 14 kids. Um like early, like no doubt interviews. And her parents, I guess, are just from like the pocket of California that's really like rich and conservative.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And so isn't she from like Orange County?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Something like that. Yeah, I don't know California geography super well, but uh right outside of LA. Right outside of LA.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Um there were some TV shows.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

What do you think similar to like uh the town with like Bethel music or wherever it was?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

What was it? It started with an R.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Uh yeah, I don't know exactly, but I think it's like a similar type thing where it's like it's these pockets of like rich conservatives um who probably wouldn't say that they're like Trump supporters proudly, but would quietly vote for a Republican to protect their own interests. Like Spencer Pratt voters? Probably, yeah. I I very tangenally followed that, not super interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Um I wish I didn't care about pop culture. I wish it didn't consume the things that I scroll, but sometimes it comes into play when Dan is trying to tell me sports things. So there's a little bit of a little nugget that I can offer. Amazing that will never serve me at any point in my life. So halo.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

So hallow, yeah. Um I I actually thought it was her app because that sort of feels like a would be like an unsurprising sort of celebrity grifter type thing to do is to like have a basic ass Christian app. But it was actually founded by a young man named Alex Jones, but not that one.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

But not the one you're thinking of, not the one you're thinking of. And like two of his friends from I think they all went to Notre Dame together. Um so three white men. Actually, one of them, I don't know. I feel like they're all white. Am I I I also don't know. Does it matter?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

It doesn't it doesn't matter too much. Yeah, I they gr he graduated from Notre Dame in 2015 with a mechanical engineering degree, which I was like kind of surprised by. And then in 2018 he came out with the the Hallow app. So just like three years post-graduation.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

And this is the first thing that we're talking about that's Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, yes. Um also kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

So within the app, it's sort of like I'm obviously didn't download it because why would I? Um well, I guess if I was a true researcher for this podcast, but we're just shooting the shit on this thing. Um, it does provide audio guided Bible stories, prayers, meditation, sleep, and Christian music. So to me, it felt like the the Catholic version of the Calm app. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

But like with praying the rosary. So I don't know how much you looked into Alex Jones' inspiration for this app, but he really liked Headspace and Calm and was basically like, I wonder why there's not a Christian version of this.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Um because there doesn't need to be. Because there, yeah, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I also sort of thought, like, I'm sure it does exist. I don't know what the app landscape was exactly in 2018, but yeah, so he was like very inspired by meditations and mindfulness and just like wanted a Christian one, which I'll say, like, of all the things we have talked about and all the things going on in this world, a prayer app is like not particularly nefarious on its face. Like, if people want to download this app to assist with their prayers, like that's fine. That's chill. I have no problem with that. But I think like there are the Hallow app in particular sort of is a an avenue that I think is maybe like worth discussing more as we go on in the episode. Where I do think there are like some problems and issues with the faith-based apps.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

On a broader scale, or just in particular, the model of this per this one? On a broader scale. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

But uh one of the major investors of Hallowed is our friend Peter Teal and our very good vice president, JD Vance. So that's very cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Famous Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Yeah, famously very Catholic.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Oh, I forget about that all the time. I love it. I don't love it. That he allegedly could be. That he met the Pope and then the Pope died the next day.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

But then we got an American Pope, which is from Chicago, no less. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I'm not Catholic, but I don't I like as much as I'm not patriotic, I do enjoy that piece for some reason. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yeah, no, I was talking with Ryan about this of like the very small handfuls of time I feel particular, particularly proud to be an American. And it's like the Olympics during the world baseball classic. And then I guess, yeah, when I think about there being an American Pope.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

For me, it's when the US women's national team plays in the World Cup and usually wins. Um I don't feel that same level of pride for the United States during the current World Cup because I I don't need to get into it, but like if you know, you know. I just, yeah, with you, definitely the Olympics. There's just something powerful about that. Yeah. Um do you want to touch on the celebrities, pseudo-celebrities that they've sort of aligned with? I know we've talked about Gwen Stefani, but there's a couple others that are important to mention. Yeah, totally. You start. So um Marky Mark Wahlberg, uh, he has a partnership with them. That started in April of 2022.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Now, Mark Wahlberg is famously Catholic.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

I mean, I guess I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

I've seen a few of his Instagram reels and TikToks, and they're so earnestly Catholic that you kind of think that he's it's satire, but it's not. Interesting. No, they're kind of funny. Doesn't he have like a hate crime background? Uh yes, he did kill somebody in the 90s. I don't know if that in particular was a hate crime. Um, specifically, but he did. Well, he okay, so there's been multiple things.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I knew he had a rough Okay. Yeah. He actually killed someone? I'm almost positive. Okay, now I'm gonna look this up. I wasn't sure that if it was that extreme. Okay, so we know he's from Boston. Big Irish Catholic family. Gotta be. Doesn't matter. Um let's get into the spiciness. Dee dee dee dee dee. Yeah, I like how they bury this. Legal issues. Okay, racially motivated attacks. He took part in many uh.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Maybe I'm thinking of Tim Allen who hit somebody with his car.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Tim Allen killed someone? I'm pretty sure he hit somebody with his car. Well, we know Caitlin Jenner did. Oh boy. We're really going down a rabbit hole now. Okay, no, he definitely did commit uh oh man, it's always like teenagers. Like he was a teenager, but it's he's also like harming teenagers. All right. I regardless, it's sort of rich. Yeah, so hate crime. Okay. So definitely practicing, I he was a kid. I'm not saying that that's right, but I do think that should be it would how do I want to phrase this? He's a white man, so that didn't destroy his entire life. Whereas if it was a person of color who committed a hate crime, their life would have been ruined. Right. Yeah. Or any sort of not have the career he has.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah. I mean, he like got away with like I mean, a lot of people probably not even being aware that that has even occurred in his life. And not saying that people can't be forgiven for things like this, especially when you're a teenager. And also Marky Mark went on to have like a very illustrious career and likely, I don't know, probably a fine for that.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, a slap on the wrist. I don't know. We're not gonna go down that rabbit hole now, even though I I teased it, so apologies. Um hard pivot. The other like big not big, not big in like popularity, but the other celebrity that they do a lot of things with is an actor named Jonathan Roomy. Yes. I who has portrayed Jesus in The Chosen, and I feel like he's always portraying Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

I had never seen him in anything else, but I would believe that. I've never watched an episode of The Chosen.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

So yeah, Jonathan Roomy is like a fa a big Catholic, but he also portrays Jesus, and I feel like he goes to a lot of speaking events for Hallow, basically doing the Jesus thing. Not like, you know, miracles, but just the general vibe of the. I have a beard and long hair. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

He's kind of like a World War wait, a Civil War reenactor, but he's Jesus. That's a really yes. Um and crazy, Mark Wahlberg was in a Super Bowl commercial for Hallow, and they were doing an ad to join their like Lenten season prayer. And Jonathan Roomy is also in that commercial. He gets like the ashes on his forehead at the end. As sort of like just a silent participant.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Did they film it on no? So this was Super Bowl, so this would have been pre-Ash Wednesday. So this means that they had to have ashes at the ready for a shoot, probably in the fall/slash summer.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Yeah, I think you could probably just get ashes whenever you need.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

That feels sacrilegious, though, to not do it on the actual day.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

You know what's crazy is I'm not sure the people who uh make money from this app care very much about the the rites and um, you know, relics of Christianity or Catholicism.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

But just to guess, I don't know. Say more on that. No, you you kind of wanted to get into the what you view as problematic within this sphere of Christian apps.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Well, so first of all, the app has gone through like many rounds of like funding from different venture capitalists.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

And it's It is not well and one of them like previously was a venture capitalist, one of the co-founders.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Oh, I believe that. Yeah. Which makes sense. I don't I don't remember which one is it.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

It doesn't matter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

But uh but it is a private company.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

It's a yeah, it's a private company. They're listed as like um something that's like it's not a nonprofit or an NGO or anything, but like they're supposed to like we provide a good for the world, and so we have to take in consideration like the world first over our like um stockholders. I can't remember what type of company that's not a it's not a B Corp, is it? It's like doubt it. It's like a B Corp, it would be one of these. It's sort of like under the umbrella.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Let me it's not like a 501c3 because it's private. Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Um let me see if I uh if Wikipedia will come in really fast.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Here on Short of the Glory, we love to just speculate, throw out ideas, see what sticks, so do some light research. This is probably the least amount that we've done.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

But I have I have I have takes Oh, a public benefit corporation. And so because they provide a public benefit, they have to take in to consideration the public over shareholders. I don't know. How do we define benefit? Well, that's the thing, is like it's a kind of a loosey-goosey um concept, from what I understand. Like, there's not a lot of regulation around how you are monitored, essentially. Like, I think anybody could kind of call themselves that. Um they have raised all this money through a series of like different funding avenues and really talk a lot about Peter Teal. Yeah, Peter Thiel, JD Vance, and talk about how they want like the world to be this app to exist for people to connect to their spirituality, blah blah blah. It's also a paid app. There are free features on it, but like you can do maybe a week of things before you like have to pay, and I think it's like $60 a year or so, like a Costco membership, but still.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

And I will say Costco does provide a benefit. I love Costco. You know, as I was moseying about, I was like, I'm gonna look at the app store reviews because I'm just curious. And to your point, yeah, it's like yes, there's a free portion of the app, but you don't have access to everything. So, like, say you want a specific prayer, like a specific challenge that may not be available to you. That's fine. What a lot of people complain about, and this is like a lot of the recent, I it's not like I just filtered for like the most negative reviews, but I will say the last couple of reviews, and I mean 50, are people saying, like, I signed up and canceled before it should have charged me, and now I keep getting charged. I've seen that one a lot too. So that feels fishy. And it's not like a complaint that's just showing up on the app store. Like people are going to Reddit, which I realize Reddit is sort of like the town square where everyone complains, and I enjoy poking around in there, but yeah, I there is it it shouldn't be that's that expensive, but I understand they have their whole bit is like we have developers that we need to pay, we have like people that work on this, and you need but the word is already written, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Right? Well, and it's like you have money for a Super Bowl commercial, you have money to pay Gwen Stefani and Mark Wahlberg to promote this app, you have money for the Bible in a year, um, father what's his face promoting it, one of like the number one religious apps in um or one of the number one religious podcasts right now. And so it's just like you have money for all of these things. I don't understand why it's not free, I'll be honest. I I just think like so much of this Christian stuff, people say that they want to do X, Y, Z with, you know, like we just want people to grow in their faith. And it's like you also want money. So don't say we just want people to do that. And it'll be different. I mean, I didn't go too too deep into their books, but like if they had some kind of foundation where they were, you know, giving money back to a community organization, but unfortunately, the only things that they give money to are things like March for Life. Yes, which is not anything I'm particularly fond of.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah. Uh the CEO and co-founder Alex Jones has previously defended the company's anti-abortion stance. In a 2023 statement, he said, I'd want to start by saying that Hallow stands proudly and unequivocally in support of all Catholic Church teaching, especially the pro-life stance of the church. That's not super surprising. I, in some ways, I'm kind of like, he said the quiet part out loud. But I wonder how that would change with the new Pope. Like, are their stances gonna change on AI now? Are they gonna never have an AI feature in their app? They currently do have an AI feature in their app.

unknown 27:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah. So it's called something like I think maybe it's just like Halo AI or something, Halo Plus. I think maybe it's got like a sneaky, not AI labeled title, but they they have something like that already. And they do they put a disclaimer that's like, this is not like you're talking to Jesus. But I mean, how different could it possibly be?

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Right. Um, interesting. Why did they I'd be curious to know why a Bible app, not just Bible, why a religious app I guess it is sort of a Bible app. Sorry. I'm like all over the place. Why an app that has like all of this produced content would feel like they also need an AI component?

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Because everybody has one. And it it just literally feels like it's playground vibes, where it's all these like dummies up here who are just like looking around, just like left to right, and looking at like everybody else has got AI, so so we must want to do AI. And meanwhile, like 80% of the population is down below them. Like, please stop. We don't water. We don't need large language models to be our friends and our like pastors.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Right. I don't feel like we need AI as any sort of enhancement to whatever search capabilities are probably already in that app. Correct. Plus the money that it would take to build that, but whatever. Like, don't chart to your point. Like, why are you charging so much money if you're wanting if your goal is to help people grow in their faith?

SPEAKER_02 29:19

I mean, that kind of like gets to maybe like my main gripe when it comes to like these types of apps that exist as a means of like growing in your faith. Um, because Hallow is not like the only app like this.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Um, like Tim Tebow also he doesn't have an app, but he's like the endorser of another Bible prayer app. Is I want to say it's like prayer.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

That's pray. Yeah, pray. There's also Glorify, which is another Christian app founded by like some 22-year-old British entrepreneur, and Michael Boblet and Chris Jenner are very into it. So I don't think it's Catholic per se, but civil.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Well, that's what makes this one special. Yeah, is because you can pray to certain saints. The rose, I don't know enough about Catholicism to say anything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

So I can see where the content would be specific to yeah, it's like it honed in on Catholicism, which is, you know, fine. And again, like the app the idea is fine. But I think like one quote from one of the app investors, I can't remember if it was Hallow or Glorify, but she said, one thing I've always thought deeply about is how I find investments that are tied to what people deem to be a core part of their identity. When you look at these communities that people strongly identify with, that's where they spend most of their time. That's where you're gonna get long-term retention, which feels like aka where you're gonna get people who are gonna spend money forever in perpetuity. You have customers, you have data. And to me, like that's like the slimy core in all of these things, which I that is what I want to caution people against. If let's, I mean, for the handful of folks on this app or who listen to our podcast who who, you know, subscribe to Christianity, who are part of that faith, and you know, like to dip their toe in some interesting criticism. Um, because I think like it's giving yourself over to apps and like a tech-based way of connecting in your faith is very gross and dangerous. And I wasn't sure if this like my hunch was based on solely vibes or like actual data, but I was curious if Gen Z in particular are becoming like more religious and or more Catholic in general. Gen Z men.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah. Well, and there have been there's been reports on that, but I I mean I think that just goes hand in hand with uh more women going to college and getting advanced degrees and maybe staying single. Um yeah, it's an it the the whole landscape of just the gender divide right now. That sounds so ugh. I hate that I said that in that way. But yes, I would say there is a a more of a trend of young men returning to the church.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah, one article I found, I think from the Washington Post cited uh 2023 cooperative election study data to like essentially, you know, see where the trends are. And it's 21% of Gen Z adults identify as Catholic compared to 19% who identify as Protestant, which is like the first time in a long time, I guess, that like that ranking has flipped in that way, where like younger people are more Catholic, which is interesting to me because I feel like when I was in my teens and twenties, being Catholic was sort of like the very conservative take, which I mean to your point about the rise and yeah, there's there is a hunch of that. But I like yeah, it's just like interesting to me that in general there seems to be from Gen Z this like siren song of like religious curiosity, which I think could could be cool, but becomes very dangerous if the way that they're seeking information about their religion is through an app that you download in the app store.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Do you think that would be their first introduction? Do you think that that is something that would enhance something that they've already sought out?

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Well, I think to me, my assumption is that like they would see like a TikTok and then be interested in the Bible and you know, maybe see an influencer recommending the app.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

I mean, they do have their own influencer that her entire account and she is connected to their YouTube channel. That's her whole spiel. I want to say her name is Madeline. I don't think that's accurate. I'm sorry, that's just like the first name, or maybe like Caitlin. But yeah, she's like this Gen Z girl, very cute, and her entire spiel is promoting the app. She is their own TikTok influencer.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah, yeah, which makes sense. That's how you get people to download, is you you do it online, but um uh it's not really about saving souls then, is it?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

It's about filling your coffer.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yeah. Um, another uh I read this on like a somebody's Substack, but this uh writer, well, actually no, I read this article on what's Barry Weiss's fucking media company before Oh CBS? No, before that, before that. Oh, I don't know. I whatever like dumb outlet she was running before this, at this is where I this is that's where I read this like statement. But I will say I I thought it was a fair observation. Um, India Freya, who also I guess recently wrote a book, I don't know much about this person in general, but just was talking about how we tend to encounter things that we're interested in first on an app. And I think with faith, that can be so dangerous because from my perspective and the way that I learned about Christian theology in particular is that the whole point of engaging with God and the Holy Spirit is like that's done in community with people. Like the early versions of churches were home churches where you sat and you read the Bible and you waited for the spirit to move you. And so it's gross to me that, like, in this effort of kind of capitalizing on a post-COVID isolating world, especially when we are when this generation of young people who grew up in that time of not having a lot of social skills or in a lot of isolation, uh like are drawn to these apps who are created by what I deem is to be very like money grubbing, conservative blowhards who actually don't care about your faith in general. And so it becomes this like very what religion in its best uh circumstances are when you are communing with other people, when you're in community, you're discussing, you're singing songs, you're talking with people who disagree with you. And it's these apps are like the opposite of that. You're talking to an AI and listening to some douchebag's voice say a catechism or meditation that got they ripped off from the calm app. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

I mean, yeah, I the only reason I would return to a a church community is for the community part. It's for communing with others and having like that shared space and connection and singing songs together. And to your point, like this is just another I don't know, how do you describe this? Is just like another symptom of the isolation problem that we have.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, yeah. I know like it's so trendy to say like loneliness epidemic, but like it kind of is, it feeds into that machine, keeps you on your phone, it it fills in it you think it fills in the gap of wanting to learn more about religion. And so you plug that hole by downloading the app instead of going to like talk to somebody a church down your street.

unknown 37:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

And like finding a church community.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

And you know what? I'll go on a limb say and say this because I know a lot of people will talk about how like the internet's important for people in small and rural communities. Um sorry, I know there's a church there.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

You might have to you might have to drive a little, but like 10 miles. But I I know that there is a church there. Um is it probably also gonna be conservative? Maybe, but at least you are talking to other people. Yeah. That is what I want.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

This has been a real bummer.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

No, the apps were supposed to be silly.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

No, it's okay. Uh, we didn't even talk about the bad Chris that has also talked about this app. Chris Kratt, everyone's least favorite Chris, is also an advocate of this and got a lot of flack because of their anti-abortion stance. Um which I don't think would change his opinion because we know that he leans more conservative. Um, do we want to get into anything silly or do we want to keep talking brass tacks? Um, that was kind of all I had. I do have a funny dumb fact, I guess. Kind of. I don't know. I wonder no, I want to hear it. I wonder if it's the same one I have, but let you go first.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Well, this was um sort of building off of the other celebrities that have been a part of this app and it's like promotion. And at one point, Liam Meeson was also under the Hallow Umbrella. And a couple people started kind of raising a stink about that because Liam Meeson has been a pretty avid uh proponent of pro-choice in Ireland in particular. And so a lot of people were upset when he was selected as like I don't know if he was reading something on Hallow or just like in some of the promotional material. And initially, Jones was like, Hallow is not a place of judgment, he added. Hallow is a place for anyone looking to grow closer to God, especially sinners. And then less than a year. Well, then less than a year later, he kicked Liam Neeson out of the thing and was like, you know, Liam Neeson, bad dude. I don't have the exact quote, but he was like, you know, we want people who are aligned with what we think, which is always a very promising sign.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah. When it comes to technology and if you're gonna be spending your money, um, we're kind of in an oligarch landscape right now when it comes to tech and its bros. I would recommend, if you're interested in learning more about this app, watch some videos of Alex Jones talking. Maybe watch his interview with Tucker Carlson, and you tell me what kind of vibe he gives you. I don't know. I'm a judgy person. I obviously have my own. Yeah. I saw it and I was like, I don't know if I can do this. My algorithm on YouTube is gonna be so fucked from that. I'm gonna get terrible stuff now. But yeah, I just get this this vibe. Maybe it's the fact that he's wearing like an 18 chain uh or an 18-inch white gold crucifix chain in every interview. And it to me that just reads as like I wouldn't join a fraternity, but I'm a proud Knights of Columbus member. Like it just gives me an icky feeling. Kind of right. But that's my own my own biases. Um can I tell you my fun dumb fact? Yes. Okay. So this is part of um this is when they were rolling out their Lent challenge. This was a tweet. Uh I'm sorry. Yeah, we still call them tweets on X, right? I I like calling it Twitter and I like calling them tweets. Okay. So this was a tweet that founder, co-founder and CEO Alex uh tweeted on February 15th of this year. Hey y'all, could you use your prayers? Some crazy stuff going on last couple of days. About to launch her biggest prayer challenge of all time by far. It's the best content we've ever had. Makes me cry, just finished listening to it one last time. We finished the last audio edit on the day two prayer, and right at the end of the scripture reading from see Sister Miriam, the audio became all distorted and ended up sounding demonic for like 30 seconds. Our audio engineer said he'd never seen this happen before. Don't you mean heard? Yeah. You don't see audio. He didn't see I mean you can, you can see a but like. Anyways, then this morning, all of our marketing campaigns just shut off for no reason. No one can explain why. Anyway, please pray. Saint Joseph, Terror of Demons, pray for us. Lord, I trust in you. You have no rival. All things work for good for those who love you. I love you, Lord. Thank you even for this. May your will be done. May the hearts that you want to reach be reached through this work. It is all yours, Lord. Take it.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

I hate it when the demons come in and take over the marketing campaign.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Right. Ugh. Oh, and this isn't like he didn't just tweet this, he also recorded a video and like talked about how he'd been listening to this day two prayer. He look he said he listened to it 500 times, cried every time. I'm like, that's a that's a lot of crying. I don't even cry that.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Loki kind of sounds like a micromanager. Like, you don't have an editor whose job it is to just listen to all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

He does, but the you know, the audio engineer had never seen this happen before. He was gooped and gagged. Um he was gooped and gagged. And then this isn't a dumb fact, but this is like a really funny clip. I want to see if you can hear it because I want to add it. It's a it was a a TikTok from Dunker Carlson interviewing Alex Jones. And I just Found this rather funny. Um, so he's he's talking about the silence of things and the importance of silence in your practice. And while he is describing this to Douglason, they start playing like this super obnoxious music over the top. And I just, you know, I needed a little truckle, and this this gave it to me. I just gotta pull it up. So maybe I'm hyping this up too much.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

And a great wind comes by and God is not in the wind. And a great earthquake comes and God is not in the earthquake. And a great fire comes and God is not in the fire. But then a still small voice comes in the silence, and God is in the still small voice. Like it's in the silence that you hear God. And it's still funny because for me. I just grew up my whole life, I was just busy and noisy. My whole life was noise, just thinking all the time, and just talking to people all the time, just thinking noise all the time. Trying to talk to people. The demon wants to try to make the world noise. Get away from music and get away from silence, because that's where the people find God. But as demons, our job is to create as much noise so that they don't think about stuff. For me, it was just that it was so much noise because it's time to like take 10 minutes. You find God.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

That's a time. I swear to God, the music just gets louder and louder as he keeps going.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

And that's like from the Tucker Carlson TikTok page. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Do you think he's trolling him?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Um, I don't know. Tucker did seem to give a little laugh in the middle of that. My life was just noise.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Um maybe he was like, mine too, brother.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

You too, homie.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Demons, they'll blind you towards spiritual things. I believe that's in our intro.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah, that's um that's old what's his face? Kirkland. No. What's his name? Was it? No.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

No, his his was in the name of Jesus. You get back where you belong.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Oh yeah, I know, you're right. That's Billy Graham, I think, then. That's talking about demons blinding eyes.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

I guess for those that were on the fence about downloading this app, you do you. But just know that if you don't cancel that free trial, you are gonna be locked in.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

You're gonna get charged.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

You are gonna get charged.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

So might as well just close the credit card in its entirety. Don't even bother trying to cancel through the app.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Um, before we go, Maddie, uh, there's a new segment I wanna um instill. And it's what is a piece of media? Could be music, could be a book, could be a TV show, that you are currently enjoying to help you survive this hellscape we're currently living in.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Oh, the Olivia Rodrigo single, um gosh. This is so embarrassing. I feel like my brain is broken. The her single, Drop Dead, is so fun. It's so like you're 14 and you have a crush on a boy vibes. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

So that I like that. You gotta bring those vibes into the second half of 2026. Correct. What about you? I have been just nom nom nom eating up the new Muna album. Um, particularly uh It Gets So Hot. It's a great, great single. Also, Big Stick if you're feeling a little spicy politically. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

So yeah, uh, would recommend. Oh, okay. Also, Jesse Ware, Superbloom album. Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. She's got one on there named Sauna, and I've just been like, ooh, feels like I'm listening to Renaissance for the first time again. Oh, I need that feeling in my life.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah, it feels good. That sounds wonderful. God bless music. And the women that make it. Amen to that, sister. Well, peace be with you, Ellen. And also with you, Maddie. Bye.